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What is the capital of Tunisia?

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What is the capital of Tunisia?

Why is it “au lieu de” ?

La phrase est correcte, comme Stéphane l’a précisé dans son commentaire.

Le site Reverso traduit la phrase et utilise du, comme si l’article de pomme était défini :

Prends la pomme au lieu du chocolat.

Mais aux oreilles française cela sonne mal, car on ne mange pas de chocolat mais du chocolat.

On dit “croquer un carré de chocolat” et “boire du chocolat” : d’un coté on a une quantité définie, de l’autre la qualité d’une boisson.

Pour ne pas traduire mot à mot et proposer une traduction bancale, il serait plus élégant de répéter le verbe :

  • Prends une pomme au lieu de prendre du chocolat (s’il s’agit de prendre une partie du chocolat présent sur la table).

  • Prends une pomme au lieu de prendre le chocolat (s’il s’agit de prendre tout le chocolat).


Ajout suite au questions de Papa Poule

L’expression :

Cela ne mange pas de pain !

veut dire cela ne coûte rien, et parle du pain en général, de l’entité pain.

Reprends du pain pour le fromage

… il s’agit ici d’un morceau de pain bien réel.

Selon que vous lisez la phrase en ayant l’idée du pain ou celle de l’objet pain en tête vous appliquerez la règle de ou du.

Bien que francophone, je ne comprends pas intuitivement la définition grammairienne de partitif (partie d’un tout) et partitif indéfini (partie d’un tout différentié par l’absence ; alors que l’on parle du pain en général, de l’entité pain !?), j’espère que le choix de la représentation d’un mot entre l’idée (représentation mentale) et l’objet (perception tactile) est plus adéquate.

Bon, il est difficile de savoir si une traduction doit être parfaite ou correcte, ou simplement correspondre à ce que diraient ou disent la majorité des gens qui parlent cette langue.

Moi, la définition que je préfère, et qui me semble aussi être la plus utilisée:

Prends une pomme au lieu de chocolat.

Ce n’est pas obligatoirement la plus correcte, mais…

ADDED (see below for original response):

Another way that helps me to resolve, or at least mitigate, the “imbalance” issue discussed below is to move the “fulcrum” (i.e., “au lieu de”) of the sentence in question from the center of the sentence to its beginning edge:

“Au lieu de chocolat, prends une pomme.”

Personnaly, I find “Au lieu de chocolat” much less weird when starting the sentence for three possible reasons:

1) it reduces the feeling that the sentence is comprised of two alternate “sides” that should/must be balanced, thereby reducing the need for balance;

2) it presents to the ear the discouraged, “chocolate, the material,” alternative before the preferred, “apple, the concrete object,” alternative (which is probably the natural order in which such an oral exchange would occur when someone goes directly for the chocolate first) ; and

3) it has the verb of the sentence, “prendre/prends,” coming after the “au lieu de” “locution prépositive,” which sounds more normal to me than having this “locution prépositive” in the middle followed by only a noun with no verb.

Original Response:

“De chocolat” sounds funny to me in this case because when my ear encounters “de chocolat,” it has always been in the greater, conceptual sense of “chocolate, the material or substance” (carré DE chocolat / tasse DE chocolat / source DE chocolat [and perhaps even: envie DE chocolat) and not in the positive “partitive’ sense (but only in the negative “partitive” sense where there’s an absence of it):

“Je voudrais bien prendre DU chocolat, (mais hélas, il n’y a plus DE
chocolat”).

With my ear and mind wanting to interpret “de chocolat” as “chocolate, the material,” the phrase in question:

“Prends une pomme au lieu DE chocolat” sounds funny to me because the two sides of the contrasting “au lieu de” construction/”equation” sound to me as if they are “out of balance.”

The “une pomme” side of the “equation” presents an alternative that describes a concrete object, regardless of its size or quantity, whereas the “de chocolat” side presents, to me, an incomparable alternative describing the metaphysical “concept of chocolate, the material.”

Perhaps my ears are too sensitive to this imbalance, but in order to achieve (with minimal editing) the balance that my ears seek, I think that one of the following changes would be required:
“Prend une pomme au lieu d’UN chocolat” (both are concrete objects = balance) or

“Prend une/LA pomme au lieu (de LE=) DU chocolat” (not the “partitive” “DU”, but “THE (particular) chocolate”)(both are concrete objects = balance).

One way that I reconfirmed that the phrase in question sounds funny to me was by reversing the two snacks to see if that sounded funny to me as well :

Prends un/le chocolat au lieu DE pomme.

Again, it might be my over-sensitive ears, but the above sentence sounds not only funny and out of balance to me, but terribly wrong as well, and if it is terribly wrong than maybe it could be argued that its inverse: “Prend une pomme au lieu DE chocolat” is equally, although perhaps less terribly, wrong.

I tried to construct a few sentences where “au lieu DE chocolat” doesn’t sound strange to me and I came up with the following, all of which involve “chocolat, the material or substance” in balance with “X, the material or concept” in the first part of the “au lieu de” equation:

« Prends le/un(les) gâteau(x) de pomme au lieu de chocolat » ;

« Le(les) gâteau(x) est (sont) fait (faits?) de pomme au lieu de chocolat » ; and finally

« Parle-moi d’amour au lieu de chocolat ».

I’m not sure what, if anything, all of this accomplishes, but perhaps it could mean that exceptions to the rule about omitting definite articles after the preposition “DE” can be made if omitting them might give rise to ambiguity about whether or not the speaker was actually referring to “X, the material/substance/concept”

Or, as an alternative, perhaps it could mean that the “DE” as it is used as “merely” an integral part of the “locution prépositive” “au lieu de” is not considered to be exactly the same as the stand-alone preposition “DE” that would require omission of definite articles

When saying “instead of chocolate” in French, you would have to say “au lieu de du chocolat”, which is not really pretty. I’m not sure, but I feel like it’s an anglicism.

I would use “Prend une pomme plutôt que du chocolat.” Or “plutôt qu’un chocolat”, or “au lieu d’un chocolat.”

Sometimes you just can’t translate word for word, this is one of those times.

Using “de” or “du” depends whether or not “chocolat” is refering to a specific chocolate (“ce chocolat particulier”), or to something more undetermined or uncountable (“le chocolat en général”).

A few examples :

  • J’ai besoin du chocolat qui est dans la cuisine” is correct
  • J’ai besoin de chocolat qui est dans la cuisine” sounds completely odd.
  • J’ai besoin de chocolat” is correct as long as you do not refer to a determined chocolate.

So you are right : if you would have say “le chocolat“, refering to a specific chocolate, then “Prends une pomme au lieu du chocolat [dont je parlais]” would have been an option.

To be quick and simple:

If you know the quantity of chocolate at this moment in the text, in the context, or if you want to make the focus on that aspect, you can use “du“. It would mean “Take an apple instead of this chocolate just there”.

Otherwise, if you just want to do a reference to the “chocolate” in general as a food (the “material”) to make an opposition with the apple, a fruit, use “de“. It would mean “Take a fruit instead of eating chocolate”.

 

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What is the capital of Tunisia?